OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[cowchaser]

Not sure if you guys read the FB thread but this was my solution. What do you think? Bullet???


Hi Nina you make an excellent point about not many quads improving there prologue positions and getting past by two wheelers in the dust but your solution is more dangerous than the problem. How about this solution? All quads get an extra 30s or a minute added to their prologue time. This will still spread the quads out amongst the field and will also drop them down in the general standings, so they will do more passing rather than being past. Please take on board this advice Nina I am trying to help not criticize.
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Smitty

[bullet]

A great suggestion Smitty. And Nina needs good ideas not abuse and riff raff, so well done.
I think they have 3 or more alternative reasonable suggestions to consider now, but if you can think of anything that might work better, by all means throw it in there.

Unfortunately, Finke organisers are in a position where they have to respond to demand for change, obviously mainly driven by some 2 wheelers, but probably only because they misunderstand quads.
As already said, we best keep positive, make any better suggestions and do as Smitty would... that's hug more guys on 2 wheelers
Nina is really trying to keep us in there.

I suggested a 10 sec loading to Quad Pro-log times might do the trick, but yeah maybe 30 sec is the go.
ANother suggestion was to start Quads in Quad only rows of 5 but still basically on their Pro-log times. So 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 all start in the same row on the 5th place Pro-log time. 6 to 10 are in the next Quad only row that might be 4 rows back?
This would eliminate one perception that Quads are too scary in the first few corners.

Great stuff. Keep the suggestions going in, but please be very nice.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[rider 950]

I put a suggestion on fdr fb that quads prologue last on the day when the track is at its roughest that way the quads would be 15 - 20 seconds slower you would think . Smithys idea is also a good one at least we will all be spread out over the field and not scaring the rear tailenders (like me haha ) Cheers Wayno

[Linc]

I have been thinking about a resonable solution and I know where the Finke commitee coming from but I also think they have gone too far the other way with their solution and have just created the same problem but at the other end of the field.

If the commitee are willing to inject a 10 min gap in to the start times why does it have to be at the end of the bikes. They could run the top 50 bikes then wait 10 min and start again with the top 10 quads and then the normal prologue times.

The fast bikes get a head start and wont have to worry about the quads. The fast quads get a pretty clear track for most (?) of the race and dont have to worry about slow bike riders.

They way they want it now with a 10 min gap between the slowest bikes and the fastest quads, the quads will catch the bikes in 10~15 min anyway. You may as well not have the gap.

[rider 950]

That sounds a pretty good alternative as well Linc great idea even have the gap @ 80 - 100 bikes maybe , after all we all have transponders and are on corrected time !!

[Col 51]

I read all the replies to this subject and i thought our quad guys handled themselves very well wish you good luck WITH IT ALL!!!!!!!

[Col 51]

How many utv are racing this year are driving this year Bullet good luck

[bullet]

Reckon I'll be on a Quad Col. I don't know which one yet.
MrsB will be on the Outlander 400 for some unfinished business.
QuadSquad has helped her out with a couple more hp this year
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[flipper]

Based on Nina's comments regarding the testing they did one of the concerns seems to stem from the finding (albeit a very small sample) that the quad rider could not hear the passing bike rider. Is a solution to one of the committee concerns a simple change where we all run a mirror. This seems to be a common (mandatory?) requirement for Dakar. Combined with some of the previous suggestions I'm sure we can address most of their (and our) concerns.
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Thanks to:

Brisbane Jet Ski, Sea-Doo & Can-Am
BCS Performance

[Nina]

Interview on Alice Springs ABC Radio today, if anyone is interested.

http://blogs.abc.net.au/nt/2013/02/should-quads-bring-up-the-rear-at-finke.html?site=alicesprings&program=alice_springs_mornings

[rider 950]

Very interesting Nina thanks for putting the link up Cheers Wayne

[cowchaser]

flipper wrote:

Based on Nina's comments regarding the testing they did one of the concerns seems to stem from the finding (albeit a very small sample) that the quad rider could not hear the passing bike rider. Is a solution to one of the committee concerns a simple change where we all run a mirror. This seems to be a common (mandatory?) requirement for Dakar. Combined with some of the previous suggestions I'm sure we can address most of their (and our) concerns.

Good suggestion but mirrors are useless on a rough dusty track
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Smitty

[Dino]

What did they use in the Dakar Cowchaser?
I thought I heard airhorns in some of the SBS links??
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Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[cowchaser]

Dino wrote:

What did they use in the Dakar Cowchaser? I thought I heard airhorns in some of the SBS links??

Prologue was used at Dakar
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Smitty

[Dino]

cowchaser wrote:

Dino wrote: What did they use in the Dakar Cowchaser? I thought I heard airhorns in some of the SBS links?? Prologue was used at Dakar

OK, I get that. ( I didn't ask that very well. )
And did you guys, or the other competitors, have/use anything to help signifying when wanting to pass in the dust under racing conditions?
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Dino]

cowchaser wrote:

Dino wrote: What did they use in the Dakar Cowchaser? I thought I heard airhorns in some of the SBS links?? Prologue was used at Dakar

Sorry mate, I didn't ask the question very clearly.
I'll try again.
When under racing conditions, do you guys or any of the other competitors, have or using any other thing or method to let one another know that a quicker competitor was wanting to pass?

I get the dust and visibilty issues, and the obvious need to focus on what's in front. I was curious on how the issue was approached by the competitors on the Dakar.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[just doin it]

Rick Hall and Yoff`s ideas are okay, our own outright class and start 1 hour later, one would be lucky to see a bike. Change remember is not just dictated by the bike riders, the governing body is the one , and for anyone who organises any bike/quad events they reealise how hard , near impossible it is to combine the 2. I certainly don`t favour the change at the moment , but at the same time we all want to continue to enter/participate & have fun in the Finke Desert Race. There has been some good suggestions and the committee are taking them on board, many don`t even do that. Y11, Y14, Y15, Y33, Y58, Y70, 412 , X02, & OVS701 will be there with bells on. Reckon Y43 & Y61 will be doing the same.
Who knows, it might even rain, it has at some stage 4 out of the past 5 years we`ve been.
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JUST DOIN IT

[cowchaser]

Dino wrote:

cowchaser wrote: Dino wrote: What did they use in the Dakar Cowchaser? I thought I heard airhorns in some of the SBS links?? Prologue was used at Dakar Sorry mate, I didn't ask the question very clearly. I'll try again. When under racing conditions, do you guys or any of the other competitors, have or using any other thing or method to let one another know that a quicker competitor was wanting to pass? I get the dust and visibilty issues, and the obvious need to focus on what's in front. I was curious on how the issue was approached by the competitors on the Dakar.

Sorry mate. Yes at Dakar we have an alarm on our GPS that can be used by competitors wishing to pass. The car guys use it all the time but only one bike used it on me
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Smitty

[Dino]

Thanks Paul.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[mannowar]

will be my first go at it this year, what are your plans for a pre run? are they strict on pre running out side of the organised one on the sunday before hand?

[donk]

tricky question that one, from what i can tell its a bit of a grey area. its spelled out quite clearly in the regs. ie no pre running on an unregested bike if your caught your out of the race. then i hear that some of the better riders have done 5000k in the lead up to the race. i think its something nobody wants to talk about. i know some of the guys are out there now. hopefully someone else can post a proper answer cheers

[mannowar]

I'm hearing ya I've seen the team ktm boys on you tube and I'm sure it's not on an official pre run day!

[rider 950]

ABC radio had an interview today with Yoffa ( FDR President ) about the starting order for quads and the outcome was that quads would start on individual grids of no more than 5 at a time in between grids of two-wheelers .
If the top 5 prologue times ranged between 6 minutes and 6:15 these 5 quads would go on the same line at the 6:15 time slot .
Day 2 would be done the same way unless a quad was within 20 minutes of the fastest 2 wheeler time on day 1 then the quad would start on corrected time .
This is a much better outcome for everybody I feel , hope it makes sense and thanks to the FDR committee for coming up with this solution which needs to be approved by MA yet .

Cheers Wayno

[rider 950]

Its on FDR facebook now !!

[PeteW]

donk wrote:

tricky question that one, from what i can tell its a bit of a grey area. its spelled out quite clearly in the regs. ie no pre running on an unregested bike if your caught your out of the race. then i hear that some of the better riders have done 5000k in the lead up to the race. i think its something nobody wants to talk about. i know some of the guys are out there now. hopefully someone else can post a proper answer cheers

It is generally only in the lead up (a few weeks before) that they get strict about pre-running on unregistered bikes and only then intermittently...

Good to hear that they have seen some sense and changed the start order Wayno. Chances are that the solution would have come from within MA....
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Last edited by PeteW on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total