OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Roycroft]

just a quick note though, when i initially brought this up it was designed to be pointed to the QRCV tri state being 20 min moto's in which i disagree entirly. the nationals is another topic and this is at a differant level. even though i do think that the nats is a super human effort to compete the 5 x 20s.



i have said my part, good to see some great responses, keep them coming
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[CCR]

Roycroft wrote:

just a quick note though, when i initially brought this up it was designed to be pointed to the QRCV tri state being 20 min moto's in which i disagree entirly. the nationals is another topic and this is at a differant level. even though i do think that the nats is a super human effort to compete the 5 x 20s.

QRCV wouldn't even read this forum, much less be influenced by it. Try writing direct to the club (if you're a financial member) and you feel you have any positive input to put forward. You would then get a hearing.
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If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

[triple"A"]

bullet wrote:

It seems there are only maybe 3 or so people in Australia who want to run Pro's for less than 20mins, and they keep making the same noise about it. Well by this topic ayway, for every couple of shorter race fans, there seems to be half a dozen who like the 20+1. Noisey minorities should not win debate by constant lobying, particularly if the topic relates to the future of our sport. Proper conideration through transparent process should prevail. And that wont be OZatv regardless of how noisey anyone wants to get with scarcely related examples rolled into a one sided view. I don't think i've ever seen our top X Team Pro's on this forum, and i'm sure both of them would happily tick the 20+1 box with a big yes please. Since a few years back in SA our 'Intermediate class' has always run 12min +1 lap. Improved from the old 4 or 5 laps, this is the best thing that ever happened to our racing. I still remember the first 12min moto nearly killed us all, but we all do it much more easily now and the racing is so much better because there is so much more to it. I like the 12mins and i'm nowhere near a Pro-racer. And that's how it should be. The day we get a bunch of Bullets in Pro's... God help us, we'd need to stop calling it Pro's for a start. Best of luck to the real 20 minute legends of our sport and anyone who wants a crack at the top level. (go Manshee ) Just imagine if our Pro's got used to 30min motos... they might go to the U.S. and clean up

love ya work lol

[ATV PRO]

bullet wrote:

It seems there are only maybe 3 or so people in Australia who want to run Pro's for less than 20mins, and they keep making the same noise about it. Well by this topic ayway, for every couple of shorter race fans, there seems to be half a dozen who like the 20+1. Noisey minorities should not win debate by constant lobying, particularly if the topic relates to the future of our sport. Proper conideration through transparent process should prevail. And that wont be OZatv regardless of how noisey anyone wants to get with scarcely related examples rolled into a one sided view. I don't think i've ever seen our top X Team Pro's on this forum, and i'm sure both of them would happily tick the 20+1 box with a big yes please. Since a few years back in SA our 'Intermediate class' has always run 12min +1 lap. Improved from the old 4 or 5 laps, this is the best thing that ever happened to our racing. I still remember the first 12min moto nearly killed us all, but we all do it much more easily now and the racing is so much better because there is so much more to it. I like the 12mins and i'm nowhere near a Pro-racer. And that's how it should be. The day we get a bunch of Bullets in Pro's... God help us, we'd need to stop calling it Pro's for a start. Best of luck to the real 20 minute legends of our sport and anyone who wants a crack at the top level. (go Manshee ) Just imagine if our Pro's got used to 30min motos... they might go to the U.S. and clean up

Have the Pro numbers in Australia Grown at a steady pace over the past few years ?
How many new Pro racers are entering the class this year ?
How many Pros will show up in 2010 ?
Why are our Elite racers going to the States to race much shorter races ?
Are our Pro racers better than the Yanks that are racing 15+1 in Pro am x 2 ?
Will the Elite will be handy capped by 5 minutes less ?
Would 5 mins less encourage more up and coming racers to have a go with the elite ?
These are some of the questions that have been put to the National Quad advisory committee for open discussion and hopefully be put to a vote by all State Members and MA racers ,like any other ATV issue .
This should make it Transparent and in turn not decided by the same noisy minority but by the unseen majority in the sport .
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[old55]

Chris :

No the pro numbers havent grown

Only a few new pros this year will be new.

Shorter races?? haha i dont think so the top pro am rider (joel hetrick) trains by doing 3 x 25 min motos, he races 30 min motos for practise and races both the pro am classes so thats a toal of 4 x 15 +2 lap motos and practise... he is 17 this year

5 mins less wouldnt encourage many people at all its the level of competition that deter them from racing in the pros, why race if they cant win?? some people/kids have the dedication and determination to be at the top level of their sport and if people are whining about 20 min motos cause they are to long or what not then dont race in the pro class because its all about training. look at ryan for example if we went to 30 min motos he would beat me hands down cause he trains that much harder and hats off to him he would deserve it. so why lower it and let the less disiplined of the sport have a chance, if they want a chance train harder then step up to the big boys league. and there is no point racing 15 min motos all through the year then for the nationals try race 5x 20 min motos, get some training in and race 20 min motos all year so maybe your a little fitter for the nationals. last year i worked on the mines fly in fly out 2 weeks on 1 week off and i managed to plan my days around keeping fit and being fast so i dont want to see people say they dont have time to keep fit cause that is bull oh and i worked 12.5 hour days

and we need to stop comparing Australia to America... there are more people in LA (Los Angeles) than Australia thats why the competition over there is so much better
American population 308,739,000
Australian population 21,874,900
so about 14 times bigger (calculated) wow imagine the competition now

and im going to america to learn and race against faster people, not just 1 or 2 faster people but a whole class of people my level or better, thats how you get faster, not by lowering the time of a race

And i know your arguments will be that if we lower the time its beter for the spectators because the racing is closer. ATV spectator numbers have never been great, speed way for example my family and i used to go watch the sprint cars all the time but we were never there for the racing we were there to see a crash and i was there to play in the dirt with mates so stop trying to use spectators as a lever to get the moto times down.

quite simply Australian atv racing will never be like america, its more a stepping stone to the american league so for the guys at the top of the pros to have their "training" cut down would be unfair to them because they are the ones who train their butts off.

our sport will grow more once more of our junior riders come up through the ranks, it will take years for this to happen and there is no quick fix so leave the motos at 20 min and maybe up the time or laps of the inermediate riders so when they step up to pros they are more suited.

blake waldman and josh higgson stepped it up last year and they came out of the blue did they not? so i dont see why more people cant, they obviously want to win. lets not lower the standard of rider coming out of australia, how about we try up it.

[Roycroft]

thats a thought, increase the level of the expert class by increasing there motos to 12+1 or close the gap between the 2 classes?

good thinking chris
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[cowchaser]

Jesus Chris! Did you get your Mum to write that for ya? I didn't know you could spell

Nah well said mate I think you hit the nail on the head
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Smitty

[old55]

cowchaser wrote:

Jesus Chris! Did you get your Mum to write that for ya? I didn't know you could spell Nah well said mate I think you hit the nail on the head

Yeah I was ambushed Smitty, his words, his typing, and his thoughts.

Leanne

[Trud]

ROB;- who asked Trud to type this as he never goes on the forum

The QRCV run the Expert with the Pros at their Club level events.
The Expert and Pros run a 10 minute moto. Then the pros immediately go out and compete another 10 min moto. The expert riders have the choice to continue on but get no points just the fitness and experience.
Both Pro and Expert love this and all have improved incredibly and deservedly so.
The QRCV aim to help their riders achieve their goals thats what our club is all about.


Quad racing in Aust is big especially if you go by the population ratio
USA pop 308,739,000 with 1000 entries
Aus pop - 21874900 with 120 entries

PS - there is nothing better than watching a 20 minute Pro race kicking back with a redbull and smoke whilst recovering from my 3 lap race. - ha ha ha

[thebigdog]

Roycroft wrote:

name one other club event that runs a 20min moto for pros in Australia, not even the WA state rounds do this, why becasue they need to grow the sport.

Just to clarify this comment. We don't run longer races because our ATV riders race at our motocross events. the long and short of that is, we run out of time because of the number of classes and riders. we only have two races for the ATV's, the rest are two wheelers. we rock up at the track at 6am and don't usually finish racing about 4:30pm. then wash down, pack up, drinks and presetations. that's why our Pros only get 15mins plus 1 lap. ( Sorry!! 10 mins plus 1 lap)
Hope that clears things up.
But it is good you acknowlege the WA Stae rounds. It has produced some good riders hey.
_________________
"WHEN THE STAKES ARE HIGH, GET SERIOUS, GET KTM"

Last edited by thebigdog on Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

[ATV PRO]

old55 wrote:

Chris : No the pro numbers havent grown Only a few new pros this year will be new. Shorter races?? haha i dont think so the top pro am rider (joel hetrick) trains by doing 3 x 25 min motos, he races 30 min motos for practise and races both the pro am classes so thats a toal of 4 x 15 +2 lap motos and practise... he is 17 this year 5 mins less wouldnt encourage many people at all its the level of competition that deter them from racing in the pros, why race if they cant win?? some people/kids have the dedication and determination to be at the top level of their sport and if people are whining about 20 min motos cause they are to long or what not then dont race in the pro class because its all about training. look at ryan for example if we went to 30 min motos he would beat me hands down cause he trains that much harder and hats off to him he would deserve it. so why lower it and let the less disiplined of the sport have a chance, if they want a chance train harder then step up to the big boys league. and there is no point racing 15 min motos all through the year then for the nationals try race 5x 20 min motos, get some training in and race 20 min motos all year so maybe your a little fitter for the nationals. last year i worked on the mines fly in fly out 2 weeks on 1 week off and i managed to plan my days around keeping fit and being fast so i dont want to see people say they dont have time to keep fit cause that is bull oh and i worked 12.5 hour days and we need to stop comparing Australia to America... there are more people in LA (Los Angeles) than Australia thats why the competition over there is so much better American population 308,739,000 Australian population 21,874,900 so about 14 times bigger (calculated) wow imagine the competition now and im going to america to learn and race against faster people, not just 1 or 2 faster people but a whole class of people my level or better, thats how you get faster, not by lowering the time of a race And i know your arguments will be that if we lower the time its beter for the spectators because the racing is closer. ATV spectator numbers have never been great, speed way for example my family and i used to go watch the sprint cars all the time but we were never there for the racing we were there to see a crash and i was there to play in the dirt with mates so stop trying to use spectators as a lever to get the moto times down. quite simply Australian atv racing will never be like america, its more a stepping stone to the american league so for the guys at the top of the pros to have their "training" cut down would be unfair to them because they are the ones who train their butts off. our sport will grow more once more of our junior riders come up through the ranks, it will take years for this to happen and there is no quick fix so leave the motos at 20 min and maybe up the time or laps of the inermediate riders so when they step up to pros they are more suited. blake waldman and josh higgson stepped it up last year and they came out of the blue did they not? so i dont see why more people cant, they obviously want to win. lets not lower the standard of rider coming out of australia, how about we try up it.

Hey Chris ,
Well said and I fully understand where you are coming from .
You are right with the population issue and unfortunately that is the problem with quad racing in Australia.
I know you and maybe 5 other pro racers along with the parents of these racers want to keep 20 +1.
However there are more considerations that we should consider to help keep the sport growing .
I feel the Pro class at the moment should be aimed for 17 to 35 to keep a good mix on the grid and should include Youth as well as a mix of experienced racers .
You will find out soon enough ,the older you get the more responsibility you have and the harder it is physically to to long motos ,by leaving it at 20+1 it is targeting the class for 17- 25 years olds .
The Nationals have remained the same for a few years now .
I really hope the up and coming races are a success but I wonder how many pro racers show up at the Tri State series ,more than last year ?
Sorry but I saw all this happen in 1990 the sport died in Australia.
Make it too hard and it puts a lot of people off.
In WA I was the Quad club president during the late 80s .
Ant Yewers ,Myself and Darren Reid could do 25 min motos (Like the two wheeled competition at the time ,Yes and I hated it and retired also ).
Most other racers were put off and it was just too hard on the machine and body,the club went from 60 members to 20 in a few years and by 1992 gone.
Most racers in any class want to enjoy the racing .
No one in Australia is getting paid to Race ,so we need to make it enjoyable until it does grow to a paying Professional sport.
The two wheeled supercross nearly died here in Australia until they made the motos much shorter ,it has fully recovered ,both racer and spectator enjoying the changes.
Quad buffs may love the sport enough to enjoy long motos ,however the public demands are different.
Ask the promoters ,business people and public what they want ?
Jeff said 20+1 is too long ,He is a champion ,great business man and very experienced .
Many like him will be the ones who will drive the sport into the future.
If racers want to practice for20 or 30 minutes ,go right ahead ,but I say for Quad racing in Australia at the moment 15+1 will boost the class and my vote to the NSW members will be in support of this .
I have no agenda or gain ,I only have a passion to see the sport grow .
Please don't jam me with Ant Yewers or Doug Gust ,they are a very gifted ,driven and rare .
Save the class and consider all angles before shutting down 15+1 .
JMHO
Happy Birthday and I hope you kick butt in the US of A .
Im keen and will be right behind your racing effort ,good luck !
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[bullet]

ATV NRG wrote:

Have the Pro numbers in Australia Grown at a steady pace over the past few years ? How many new Pro racers are entering the class this year ? How many Pros will show up in 2010 ? Why are our Elite racers going to the States to race much shorter races ? Are our Pro racers better than the Yanks that are racing 15+1 in Pro am x 2 ? Will the Elite will be handy capped by 5 minutes less ? Would 5 mins less encourage more up and coming racers to have a go with the elite ? These are some of the questions that have been put to the National Quad advisory committee for open discussion and hopefully be put to a vote by all State Members and MA racers ,like any other ATV issue . This should make it Transparent and in turn not decided by the same noisy minority but by the unseen majority in the sport .

Would the noisey minority be the SAME people still on this point?
Just by reading this thread, it seams the majority are for retaining the 20+1 format.
Lobbying voters is one way to win a point.
I supose if you want to change something, at the start of that process you might have to accept that you are in a minority, at that stage.
From there you'd probably rally and gather the troops, making as much noise as possible to build your side.
This process can also skews results, and the NQAC will now have to consider any such distortion of facts.

All of these points will be considered (not just the few one sided points in ATV NRG's questions above, to which anyone could easily come up with an opposing question for each one)...
But, the greater list of real issues.
Incidentally just so everyone knows (seeing as "some" questions have been porely posted and lack obvious balance)...
The above 'are definitely not' the only points the NQAC will be considering!
There will be many in addition to those that were not metioned.
I would think number one will be what is best for sport growth (while keeping in mind that no-one enters the class at Pro level).
And what the riders want will obviously be high on the list too, as well as many other considertions.

I really hope it does not go out for club votes, to be delivered in a skewed way by a representative, only to attract a infated noisy minority's view.
It will be difficult to decide how much of a problem this factor is if people keep throwing things like rediculously one sided comparisons to the U.S. on public forums.
Yes there are some good comparisons, but so far these are not being publically aired in a balanced way.
For example, should it be mandatory that in Australia Pro races are only allowed to do 2 races at any Open or Nationals event... like they do in the U.S.?
I'd say hell no.

Incidentally, i have no bias ether way.
I just don't like the idea of one sided argument hammered publically, where such an imbalance might sway the usually silent majority off the fence, and into a decision that could effect the future of quad racing in Australia.

Some good points and ideas have come up here.
But hammering one sided argument is not going to be healthy.

Also remember and respect that event promoters can pretty much race which ever format they need to, or choose to.
And i'm sure none of them make decisions delibertly aimed at sport failure.
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Roycroft]

sorry bullet, i didn't understand a word you said, try toning down the university degree words and response so everyone can understand it. LOL
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2012 sponsors, Working on it.

[bullet]

Ha ha
I'll get you started Roycroft...
The first word is 'would' and the next one is only a little one with 3 letters in it, that i bet if you try real hard, you could say it

I was too dumb for university
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Roycroft]

thanks for clearing that

i was too smart for uni, waste of money anyway
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[bullet]

Yeah i agree "waste of money"...
Not like quad racing
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[ATV PRO]

bullet wrote:

ATV NRG wrote: Have the Pro numbers in Australia Grown at a steady pace over the past few years ? How many new Pro racers are entering the class this year ? How many Pros will show up in 2010 ? Why are our Elite racers going to the States to race much shorter races ? Are our Pro racers better than the Yanks that are racing 15+1 in Pro am x 2 ? Will the Elite will be handy capped by 5 minutes less ? Would 5 mins less encourage more up and coming racers to have a go with the elite ? These are some of the questions that have been put to the National Quad advisory committee for open discussion and hopefully be put to a vote by all State Members and MA racers ,like any other ATV issue . This should make it Transparent and in turn not decided by the same noisy minority but by the unseen majority in the sport . Would the noisey minority be the SAME people still on this point? Just by reading this thread, it seams the majority are for retaining the 20+1 format. Lobbying voters is one way to win a point. I supose if you want to change something, at the start of that process you might have to accept that you are in a minority, at that stage. From there you'd probably rally and gather the troops, making as much noise as possible to build your side. This process can also skews results, and the NQAC will now have to consider any such distortion of facts. All of these points will be considered (not just the few one sided points in ATV NRG's questions above, to which anyone could easily come up with an opposing question for each one)... But, the greater list of real issues. Incidentally just so everyone knows (seeing as "some" questions have been porely posted and lack obvious balance)... The above 'are definitely not' the only points the NQAC will be considering! There will be many in addition to those that were not metioned. I would think number one will be what is best for sport growth (while keeping in mind that no-one enters the class at Pro level). And what the riders want will obviously be high on the list too, as well as many other considertions. I really hope it does not go out for club votes, to be delivered in a skewed way by a representative, only to attract a infated noisy minority's view. It will be difficult to decide how much of a problem this factor is if people keep throwing things like rediculously one sided comparisons to the U.S. on public forums. Yes there are some good comparisons, but so far these are not being publically aired in a balanced way. For example, should it be mandatory that in Australia Pro races are only allowed to do 2 races at any Open or Nationals event... like they do in the U.S.? I'd say hell no. Incidentally, i have no bias ether way. I just don't like the idea of one sided argument hammered publically, where such an imbalance might sway the usually silent majority off the fence, and into a decision that could effect the future of quad racing in Australia. Some good points and ideas have come up here. But hammering one sided argument is not going to be healthy. Also remember and respect that event promoters can pretty much race which ever format they need to, or choose to. And i'm sure none of them make decisions delibertly aimed at sport failure.

Hey Bullet
Everyone seems to be hammering here .
The minority may be on this public forum,however its the clubs and riders that should make rule and as I believe it is up to the delegate of each state to put a motion forward to its members for a vote then a decision made by its result or is this not right?
Voting is the only fair and just way to get the best outcome .
The racing numbers ,spectators,business generated dictates the success of the sport ,and its pretty clear something is wrong .
Discussion publicly on the subject is healthy and wright .
It going behind closed doors that is unhealthy and concedes deceit .
Words you use like One sided ,minority,inflated,noisy,rediculously (New word),poorly posted...this is a forum for all people to have a say and Bullet your attitude is coming across in a negative and arrogant way
Mate us noisy minority only want what is best for the sport also .
Answers to the real question above is what is required ,so if they are so easily answered then please have a go .
But please leave the spin doctoring to the politicians and put it through the correct protocol so we can make the right decisions for the sport we all love .
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[bullet]

Not everyone is hammering Lenny.
I have not personaly weighted 15 min or 20 min races at all.
I have said i'd like to see the Pro's get more than 2 races per event...
but i think that's a given anyway, so i don't think i was trying to influence anyone there.

I believe it is up to the delegate of each state to put a motion forward to its members for a vote then a decision made by its result or is this not right?

Not really, our job as delegates is mainly to listen and pass up.
Definitely not to 'push' a view, but more to deliver any topic to our clubs in an impartial and unbiased way.
Because importanty, this may lead to some form of a club vote or single opinion.
It's not a matter of flogging something until you finally get it across the line.
If anything, a state delegate should probably play the devils advocate on raised issues to be sure any points raised are well thought through on both sides.
Definitely not to sell one side only, a delegate should not do that.

And i agree, the majority of people are probably not on this public forum.
My point entirely.
We don't want to end up with a rule book written by such a small group who were only sold one side of the story.
Especially if that person is an NQAC delegate who has been told many times that the point has already been recorded for consideration.

And no, Clubs and riders don't make the rules, they request them.
The Board of MA are the only people who can make rules (it's their insurance, their responsibiity) and as i have noted on this issue they may well continue to leave it up to event promoters to do what they like.
If they do, I would guess it is because they feel that a rule is not necessary because the clubs and promoters are best positioned to do this themselves and currently do the job well.

Discussion on the subject is healthy... and if it involves good representation from all angles... it's also an ideal base for good decision.

Our job is to represent anyone and everyones valid points of view in a fair and balanced manner.

I like that forums are a good place for 'everyone' to have their say.
I just wish you had something else to say, or we could hear from someone else

Anyway, we're a bit off topic now and we can continue by e-mail so we don't bore everyone to death.
I'll catch up with you at the SA Tri-State next week
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[ATV PRO]

bullet wrote:

Not everyone is hammering Lenny. I have not personaly weighted 15 min or 20 min races at all. I have said i'd like to see the Pro's get more than 2 races per event... but i think that's a given anyway, so i don't think i was trying to influence anyone there. I believe it is up to the delegate of each state to put a motion forward to its members for a vote then a decision made by its result or is this not right? Not really, our job as delegates is mainly to listen and pass up. Definitely not to 'push' a view, but more to deliver any topic to our clubs in an impartial and unbiased way. Because importanty, this may lead to some form of a club vote or single opinion. It's not a matter of flogging something until you finally get it across the line. If anything, a state delegate should probably play the devils advocate on raised issues to be sure any points raised are well thought through on both sides. Definitely not to sell one side only, a delegate should not do that. And i agree, the majority of people are probably not on this public forum. My point entirely. We don't want to end up with a rule book written by such a small group who were only sold one side of the story. Especially if that person is an NQAC delegate who has been told many times that the point has already been recorded for consideration. And no, Clubs and riders don't make the rules, they request them. The Board of MA are the only people who can make rules (it's their insurance, their responsibiity) and as i have noted on this issue they may well continue to leave it up to event promoters to do what they like. If they do, I would guess it is because they feel that a rule is not necessary because the clubs and promoters are best positioned to do this themselves and currently do the job well. Discussion on the subject is healthy... and if it involves good representation from all angles... it's also an ideal base for good decision. Our job is to represent anyone and everyones valid points of view in a fair and balanced manner. I like that forums are a good place for 'everyone' to have their say. I just wish you had something else to say, or we could hear from someone else Anyway, we're a bit off topic now and we can continue by e-mail so we don't bore everyone to death. I'll catch up with you at the SA Tri-State next week

Just to clear it up a little I have been approached by NSW Racers and QLD Racers .Ten in total that would have a go if the race time was less,people with big commitments in time and money (Mortgages and Kids ) 30 somethings That are worthy to race Pro and that will be competitive with the top ten and yes the top 5 will be the same top 5 irrespective of race time .
It may boost numbers in the middle order and in turn boost total numbers .
So I feel the need need to convey its importance .
I only hope the correct outcome is reached and of coarse I agree the promoters and race organizers do a great job ,I have never questioned this .
Yes mate I will see you soon in SA
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[triple"A"]

i think maybe that before writing off the longer pro class heats as a spectator's nightmare, perhaps a survey of spectators need be conducted. at most quad only mx events there are many classes to watch, and for me, the clubman and intermediate/expert classes give me a dose of short sprint races with the competition being relatively close, then there's a plethora of junior classes to admire the development of our sport, and follow the advancement of outstanding individuals as well as note the marked improvement of the masses, and then there's the pro's who amaze and excite us with not only their skills , but their fitness and endurance to put in for long motos.

there's always lots to talk about after a race meeting, and that's due to the variety on offer. lots of classes, junior, women's jumbo's, seniors, pro's and lots of variation in the riding strategies to contend with the conditions set for each class.

as a spectator my 2.2 cents worth (friggin gst)

[JRE]

why not mix it up a little most race days run 3 rounds so why not run 2x 15 min motos and have the last race of the day being the Pro class main event as a 20 min moto so all can watch the pinical of our sport to end the day

[thebigdog]

triple"A" wrote:

i think maybe that before writing off the longer pro class heats as a spectator's nightmare, perhaps a survey of spectators need be conducted. at most quad only mx events there are many classes to watch, and for me, the clubman and intermediate/expert classes give me a dose of short sprint races with the competition being relatively close, then there's a plethora of junior classes to admire the development of our sport, and follow the advancement of outstanding individuals as well as note the marked improvement of the masses, and then there's the pro's who amaze and excite us with not only their skills , but their fitness and endurance to put in for long motos. there's always lots to talk about after a race meeting, and that's due to the variety on offer. lots of classes, junior, women's jumbo's, seniors, pro's and lots of variation in the riding strategies to contend with the conditions set for each class. as a spectator my 2.2 cents worth (friggin gst)

Is everyone reading this? Makes a $hit load of sense.

THANK YOU tripple "A"
_________________
"WHEN THE STAKES ARE HIGH, GET SERIOUS, GET KTM"

[mickbundy]

Doesn't matter it is here now
Good luck to all racing this weekend
Have a safe and fun weekend

[Country Boy!!]

What is the address of the track??
_________________
[centre]I'm Country Nothin' Beats the Country Life[/centre]

[centre][/centre]

[mickbundy]

South Australia at Acusa Park in the Adelaide Hills
I got this off the forum here