OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[J.A.S.]

G'day guys,
My wife and I bought a couple of CFMoto quads, an X5 and an X8 - price was good for purchasing 2 quads. Maybe not the best choice considering a couple of problems we have.

Possibly too many questions for one post - but someone may be able to offer advice - so here goes:

Both of the bikes are extremely difficult to change the transmission gear lever position. Sometimes it is impossible to move the lever (yes, brake peddle applied). It is necessary to shut off the motor, then try to move the lever. This works most of the time, but when this procedure does not work, it is necessary to rock the bike forward and backward while trying to move the lever. This problem occurs with both bikes. I have checked the oil level and this is correct.
We went on a ride with the “Tassie Quads & Bikes� club last Saturday and on the ride we saw everyone else in the club changing the gear lever on their quad bikes so easily with no fuss and with no rocking backwards and forwards in order to move the lever (suzuki, Yamaha, Can-am, etc).

Another problem with both bikes is when descending down a slope under engine braking, we may then need to apply the foot brake. While using the foot brake, there is an unpleasant loud chattering noise that comes from the right hand side of the motor/belt drive area. This occurs with both the X5 and the X8. The rear brake changes the engine brake requirement and something starts to make a loud chatters sound...

The X8 has another, fairly major problem. 3 times recently, I have put the X8 into high range - seems to latch in correctly - but - as I start to move forward, the lever has jumped out of "H" to in between "H" and "L". This causes a serious gear grinding sound until the motor revs has dropped back to idle speed.

So there it is. I hope some of these issues are solvable. I thought the gear change problem may be the engine idling a bit too fast..... Anyway, the bikes are going in for first service next week - they both have only done around 300 km.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys,

Jim

[bullet]

Sounds like the CVT side of things might need a bit of a service and clean up.
If you've been underwater a bit, they require more attention.

The popping out of 'H' problem is usually a slightly bent gear shift, usually bent from forcing when it won't change gear.
they are pretty easy to straighten back up or adjust the rod that goes down to the transmission.
To check the correct position, have it idling in H and move the gear lever sideways out of the slot and see where it naturally sits. If it sits hard against either edge of the slot, there is your problem.

On the Can-Am's if the shift gets sticky, it's the Front clutch sprag bearing needs a clean / grease / or replacement. They are easy to do, and I reckon the CF Moto would be similar.
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Woody62]

if the idle is to high it will make the shift hard.It sounds like it needs adjusting. The 1st service should sort it out. CFMoto shifters are normally a bit stiff until they get a few km on them but yours seem like a problem from the pre delivery set up from the dealer?

[hjack]

J.A.S. wrote:

G'day guys, My wife and I bought a couple of CFMoto quads, an X5 and an X8 - price was good for purchasing 2 quads. Maybe not the best choice considering a couple of problems we have. Possibly too many questions for one post - but someone may be able to offer advice - so here goes: Both of the bikes are extremely difficult to change the transmission gear lever position. Sometimes it is impossible to move the lever (yes, brake peddle applied). It is necessary to shut off the motor, then try to move the lever. This works most of the time, but when this procedure does not work, it is necessary to rock the bike forward and backward while trying to move the lever. This problem occurs with both bikes. I have checked the oil level and this is correct. We went on a ride with the “Tassie Quads & Bikes� club last Saturday and on the ride we saw everyone else in the club changing the gear lever on their quad bikes so easily with no fuss and with no rocking backwards and forwards in order to move the lever (suzuki, Yamaha, Can-am, etc). Another problem with both bikes is when descending down a slope under engine braking, we may then need to apply the foot brake. While using the foot brake, there is an unpleasant loud chattering noise that comes from the right hand side of the motor/belt drive area. This occurs with both the X5 and the X8. The rear brake changes the engine brake requirement and something starts to make a loud chatters sound... The X8 has another, fairly major problem. 3 times recently, I have put the X8 into high range - seems to latch in correctly - but - as I start to move forward, the lever has jumped out of "H" to in between "H" and "L". This causes a serious gear grinding sound until the motor revs has dropped back to idle speed. So there it is. I hope some of these issues are solvable. I thought the gear change problem may be the engine idling a bit too fast..... Anyway, the bikes are going in for first service next week - they both have only done around 300 km. Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks guys, Jim

Hi Jim,
I got myself a CFmoto x5 (500/A) version. And I got the same problem as yours except, after 4-7 rides, the transmission gear started to soften. I believe, there will be certain time it will be hard to shift until you move a few feet away, the transmission gear then easily shifted.

Anyhow, it seems to me, this version of CFmoto do have a bunch of problem especially the exhaust part. It is really hot especially on the right side, since the exhaust has been designed to the right side of the engine. I bet if they redesign the x5 and re-route the exhaust at the bottom part of the ATV, it may no longer get hot and thus eliminate the heating problem that scorching a few parts of the atv such as the fuel tank, coolant reservoir, cabling and hose (in which these parts are allocated below the the fuel tank and next to the exhaust outlet).

Due to the fact the exhaust have caused damage some parts of the atv parts, which currently have damage the hose joint to the coolant reservoir and the fuel tank (it was leaking on the "jointed" plastic part of the fuel tank), I am yet to troubleshoot the causes of my radiator fan for turning on randomly even it has heating up quite hot.

It was early January this year, the 7th ride which have indicated on my speedometer that I have rode for almost 400km since I bought CFmoto 500/A last Oct 2013, and it has died again on me again. I was stuck in the jungle for 2hours plus with my cousin apparently riding on 200cc Sym Trackrunner, which he couldn't get his ATV up to the steep hill and thus required my ATV to winch his ATV up to the top.

While trying to pull his ATV up to the top of the hill, my CFmoto however, has already heating up quite badly due to idling, and my right leg has already turned quite red due to the exhaust heating up on the right side of the engine apparently the water temperature gauge display didn't show my engine is heating up and none of us could hear the fan is turning on. And all of the sudden, the engine died and so I thought the engine is really now overheating but yet the water temperature gauge display showed "3 bars". So I gave the engine kickstarting 3 times and it didn't turn on, as if, there was no fuel or the engine was suffocating. In the end of the day, we had to go back down the hill to the nearby river and gave it a cool down. About 10mins or so, I gave it another try and my ATV come back to life. Due to the fact the other side of the hill was still new to us, we went back where we came from and it was already dark and it was already 2030hrs.

Anyhow, I noticed when we rode back home, the temperature around the exhaust start to heat up again, but as long the ATV is moving, the engine spin normally compare when I was stuck in the jungle idling.

So the next day, i went back to the dealer and left my phone as the seller requested to leave my number for their manager to call back. Apparently he didn't call me back. I bet the manager was scared of me as I did demand to have my ATV replace if it died on me again. I couldn't longer trust him nor his mechanic because the 1st "die" was on the 2nd month I bought my ATV, and I was only riding on the road back and forth on a 3km road. For the duration of 7mths I have sent 4 times to the dealer for a free repairs and yet it's still died on me.

So after few days, I couldn't wait any longer, I have decided to repair my ATV on my own.

So what I did was;
1. Disconnect the fan's cable to test the fan faulty; Fan was working fine, after pulling one of the cable and "touch" it to the radiator's metal.
2. Plug out the thermoswitch and check for connection using the multimeter; Multimeter detected there was a continuity.
3. Eyeing through the radiator's "net" to see if there was any mud stuck; Radiator is still fully cleared, and no mud was seen.
4. Currently, checking the water pump and the results were, the impeller was not as "free" as the one I watched over the youtube. (I'm not sure how "free" is the turning as it should be, but when I turned the impeller, it's still can be turned but it requires a bit of pressure via the finger tip.

what I didn't do was and/or have not done;
1. Before removing the water pump and rectifying the hose joint to the coolant reservoir, I didn't feel/touch the radiator's hose that was coming out from the bottom of the radiator (2nd radiator hose). If I did, then I would have known earlier that there was something wrong with the coolant flow. Perhaps, the water pump's impeller should have move freely instead of applying a bit of pressure.
2. Checking the connection from the radiator fan to the Fan Relay.
3. Checking the connection from the Fan Relay to Fuse box.

As many as I can report and include the details of the problems I'm having in here, I appreciate if anyone can assist me or give me tips or how-to to rectify or troubleshoot.

Sorry if my English seems off, it's my second language. I hope I'm clear enough with the details.

Whatever the idea, or tips or assistance, I thank you.
_________________
I'm just a newbie with ATV and engine and related stuff.

[Dino]

The problems described above about a hot exhaust are common.
A leaking flange gasket between the engine pipe and the muffler is the problem. The heat escaping is incredible and heat shields do work, but are not the total solution.
The standard exhaust is poorly designed.
Get a exhaust made for it by a motorcycle exhaust establishment.
Retune or jet the carby.

Oh. And "dealers" are mainly useless, for all brands.
Most are happy to sell, not fix.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[hjack]

Dino wrote:

The problems described above about a hot exhaust are common. A leaking flange gasket between the engine pipe and the muffler is the problem. The heat escaping is incredible and heat shields do work, but are not the total solution. The standard exhaust is poorly designed. Get a exhaust made for it by a motorcycle exhaust establishment. Retune or jet the carby. Oh. And "dealers" are mainly useless, for all brands. Most are happy to sell, not fix.

Thanks Dino for advising on how to tackle the exhaust problem. Anyhow, I'm still trying to troubleshoot the cooling system, so I'm not sure if due to the exhaust heat builds up causing the radiator fan not turning up or there's something wrong with cooling system entirely is yet to be investigated. Additionally, I haven't tracked down the fan cable to the Fan relay yet as the cable are tied together with the main cable. Until I can make sure that the cooling system is properly circulated.
_________________
I'm just a newbie with ATV and engine and related stuff.

[Dino]

(1) EXHAUST
If your exhaust is leaking, and not providing the proper back pressure, your mixture will go lean and your motor will run hot. Fix the exhaust.

(2) COOLING FAN>ECU
The cooling fan is switched on by the ECU, and relates to temperature and earthing. If 12 volt supplied to the fan gets the fan running, the fan is fine.
ECU's monitor and control so much, it'll do your head in.
But I had two ECU's go crook in 6 years, and is a simple fix. Replace the thing.

(3) COOLING SYSTEM>
Start the motor with the radiator cap removed and let it idle and warm up. As soon as the thermostat opens, you will see the water flow in the radiator. If it flows, that is not your problem.

Hope that helps.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[bullet]

A suspect EFI fuel pump can cause a lot of excess heat.
If the fuel pressure is down, it can pretty much run as normal but on the really lean side.
The difference in cylinder temperatures is pretty dramatic.

You'll need an inline gauge to check the pressure to the spec.

If comparing same model machines next to each other, and you think one bike has this problem, sometimes you might notice an indicator that the colour inside the tip of the exhaust is a much lighter grey (leaner).
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Dino]

bullet wrote:

A suspect EFI fuel pump can cause a lot of excess heat. If the fuel pressure is down, it can pretty much run as normal but on the really lean side. The difference in cylinder temperatures is pretty dramatic. You'll need an inline gauge to check the pressure to the spec. If comparing same model machines next to each other, and you think one bike has this problem, sometimes you might notice an indicator that the colour inside the tip of the exhaust is a much lighter grey (leaner).

X5 is a carby job Bullet.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[hjack]

Dino wrote:

bullet wrote: A suspect EFI fuel pump can cause a lot of excess heat. If the fuel pressure is down, it can pretty much run as normal but on the really lean side. The difference in cylinder temperatures is pretty dramatic. You'll need an inline gauge to check the pressure to the spec. If comparing same model machines next to each other, and you think one bike has this problem, sometimes you might notice an indicator that the colour inside the tip of the exhaust is a much lighter grey (leaner). X5 is a carby job Bullet.

Yup, its a carb engine.
_________________
I'm just a newbie with ATV and engine and related stuff.

[hjack]

Dino wrote:

(1) EXHAUST If your exhaust is leaking, and not providing the proper back pressure, your mixture will go lean and your motor will run hot. Fix the exhaust. (2) COOLING FAN>ECU The cooling fan is switched on by the ECU, and relates to temperature and earthing. If 12 volt supplied to the fan gets the fan running, the fan is fine. ECU's monitor and control so much, it'll do your head in. But I had two ECU's go crook in 6 years, and is a simple fix. Replace the thing. (3) COOLING SYSTEM> Start the motor with the radiator cap removed and let it idle and warm up. As soon as the thermostat opens, you will see the water flow in the radiator. If it flows, that is not your problem. Hope that helps.

1. I have to check for the exhaust. But then and again, I have to re-route it somewhere else. Or cover it off from the outlet up to the rear.
2. ECU? you mean the CDI? The CDI was replaced with the new ones last August I think, but I'm sure it was replaced after mid year last year. I hope the shunt relay or the auxiliary relay is the culprit. I'm not sure which relay is the fan connected to, it was only mentioned the "fan relay" in the electrical schematic.
3. I have took the water pump out currently waiting the new ones arrive. I'm not sure if the water pump was at faulty, but when I was taking the water pump apart it was quite troublesome. The impeller's rod didn't turn/spin smoothly, and the bearing was stuck to the water pump main body. Basically, it's really such pain on the neck of trying to dismantle the water pump parts.

So, checking the water flow is no longer an option😂.
_________________
I'm just a newbie with ATV and engine and related stuff.

[Dino]

Yeah mate.
(1) With the exhaust, if you cover the end while running, it will leak out where the main hole is. normally where the engine pipe meets the tail pipe.
Like I said, bad design. I got a new system fitted using the old muffler for less than a original equipment engine pipe was worth.
(2) ECU or CDI, same thing. And a common issue. I always took a spare with me in isolated areas, which I used to ride a lot of. Also a spare vacumn fuel valve, compressor and tyre repair kit, and a tow rope. I did get towed back a couple of times.....and towed other brands too, It happens. Don't ride alone! Not that the bikes are particularly unreliable but your riding buddies appreciate a hand, and a laugh, as much as you do. Common sense suggestion only.
(3) Sounds like your water pump isn't right.
And yes, generally easier to replace the water pump complety rather than repair them. Guess you'll know more when it arrives and you fit it.

I will add that riding in mud wears brake pads out very quickly, and a lot of water work can do damage to the cvt system. Preventative maintenance was a full, and very thorough clean after mud rides. I used to do a lot of that......
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[hjack]

Dino wrote:

Yeah mate. (1) With the exhaust, if you cover the end while running, it will leak out where the main hole is. normally where the engine pipe meets the tail pipe. Like I said, bad design. I got a new system fitted using the old muffler for less than a original equipment engine pipe was worth. (2) ECU or CDI, same thing. And a common issue. I always took a spare with me in isolated areas, which I used to ride a lot of. Also a spare vacumn fuel valve, compressor and tyre repair kit, and a tow rope. I did get towed back a couple of times.....and towed other brands too, It happens. Don't ride alone! Not that the bikes are particularly unreliable but your riding buddies appreciate a hand, and a laugh, as much as you do. Common sense suggestion only. (3) Sounds like your water pump isn't right. And yes, generally easier to replace the water pump complety rather than repair them. Guess you'll know more when it arrives and you fit it. I will add that riding in mud wears brake pads out very quickly, and a lot of water work can do damage to the cvt system. Preventative maintenance was a full, and very thorough clean after mud rides. I used to do a lot of that......

Awesome, I hope the new water pump solve most of the problem if not all.
For the CDI, didn't expect it can get faulty frequently, but, I'll be getting another just in case. Last time it was replaced due to starting/turning on the engine, and the idling wasn't maintain. Still, I'm gonna trace back the fan cable up to its actual relay.
Lastly, I believe if the exhaust were covered well, I got high suspicious it would not have damage other parts.

but anyway, thank you for the tips. I will update once I get the water pump replace and fix the exhaust. I better trace the fan cable 1st before having the exhaust replaced, it won't be awesome dismantling everything twice.
_________________
I'm just a newbie with ATV and engine and related stuff.

[bullet]

hjack wrote:

Dino wrote: bullet wrote: A suspect EFI fuel pump can cause a lot of excess heat. If the fuel pressure is down, it can pretty much run as normal but on the really lean side. The difference in cylinder temperatures is pretty dramatic. You'll need an inline gauge to check the pressure to the spec. If comparing same model machines next to each other, and you think one bike has this problem, sometimes you might notice an indicator that the colour inside the tip of the exhaust is a much lighter grey (leaner). X5 is a carby job Bullet. Yup, its a carb engine.

Sorry, I thought they were all EFI.
Dino sounds on to it anyway.

If all else fails and you think it might be excess heat from running too lean, maybe check the fuel bowl level is not at the low end of spec or below.
By comparison, a tad on the rich side will help keep any engine a bit cooler, it might help a bit... but it's probably not your problem.
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[hjack]

hjack wrote:

Dino wrote: Yeah mate. (1) With the exhaust, if you cover the end while running, it will leak out where the main hole is. normally where the engine pipe meets the tail pipe. Like I said, bad design. I got a new system fitted using the old muffler for less than a original equipment engine pipe was worth. (2) ECU or CDI, same thing. And a common issue. I always took a spare with me in isolated areas, which I used to ride a lot of. Also a spare vacumn fuel valve, compressor and tyre repair kit, and a tow rope. I did get towed back a couple of times.....and towed other brands too, It happens. Don't ride alone! Not that the bikes are particularly unreliable but your riding buddies appreciate a hand, and a laugh, as much as you do. Common sense suggestion only. (3) Sounds like your water pump isn't right. And yes, generally easier to replace the water pump complety rather than repair them. Guess you'll know more when it arrives and you fit it. I will add that riding in mud wears brake pads out very quickly, and a lot of water work can do damage to the cvt system. Preventative maintenance was a full, and very thorough clean after mud rides. I used to do a lot of that...... Awesome, I hope the new water pump solve most of the problem if not all. For the CDI, didn't expect it can get faulty frequently, but, I'll be getting another just in case. Last time it was replaced due to starting/turning on the engine, and the idling wasn't maintain. Still, I'm gonna trace back the fan cable up to its actual relay. Lastly, I believe if the exhaust were covered well, I got high suspicious it would not have damage other parts. but anyway, thank you for the tips. I will update once I get the water pump replace and fix the exhaust. I better trace the fan cable 1st before having the exhaust replaced, it won't be awesome dismantling everything twice.

Well that's a surprise~~ the new water pump apparently is not that "loose". Quite disappointing really, knowing that the previous water pump actually designed as such. Well, I guess I'm left with the cable and relay. Hopefully it's one of them.😖
_________________
I'm just a newbie with ATV and engine and related stuff.

[hjack]

hjack wrote:

hjack wrote: Dino wrote: Yeah mate. (1) With the exhaust, if you cover the end while running, it will leak out where the main hole is. normally where the engine pipe meets the tail pipe. Like I said, bad design. I got a new system fitted using the old muffler for less than a original equipment engine pipe was worth. (2) ECU or CDI, same thing. And a common issue. I always took a spare with me in isolated areas, which I used to ride a lot of. Also a spare vacumn fuel valve, compressor and tyre repair kit, and a tow rope. I did get towed back a couple of times.....and towed other brands too, It happens. Don't ride alone! Not that the bikes are particularly unreliable but your riding buddies appreciate a hand, and a laugh, as much as you do. Common sense suggestion only. (3) Sounds like your water pump isn't right. And yes, generally easier to replace the water pump complety rather than repair them. Guess you'll know more when it arrives and you fit it. I will add that riding in mud wears brake pads out very quickly, and a lot of water work can do damage to the cvt system. Preventative maintenance was a full, and very thorough clean after mud rides. I used to do a lot of that...... Awesome, I hope the new water pump solve most of the problem if not all. For the CDI, didn't expect it can get faulty frequently, but, I'll be getting another just in case. Last time it was replaced due to starting/turning on the engine, and the idling wasn't maintain. Still, I'm gonna trace back the fan cable up to its actual relay. Lastly, I believe if the exhaust were covered well, I got high suspicious it would not have damage other parts. but anyway, thank you for the tips. I will update once I get the water pump replace and fix the exhaust. I better trace the fan cable 1st before having the exhaust replaced, it won't be awesome dismantling everything twice. Well that's a surprise~~ the new water pump apparently is not that "loose". Quite disappointing really, knowing that the previous water pump actually designed as such. Well, I guess I'm left with the cable and relay. Hopefully it's one of them.😖

Well, at last its fixed now. After I've changed the thermoswitch, and a few twiddling with the fan cable, my fan is now working properly. It turned on every 15secs for 10secs tick. So, I have separated the fan cable from the main harness and gave it a manual switch just in case it happens again. For the love of atv, it took me a month plus to troubleshoot. Speaking of newbie huh!?
_________________
I'm just a newbie with ATV and engine and related stuff.